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Tradewin.co.uk - Scam or Real?

I have been taking a look at a trading strategy for FTSE100 & S&P 500 stocks after receiving an email promoting:

www.tradewin.co.uk

who promise:

"A clear & concise trading strategy, with specific signals that generate profit, removing the most common mistakes traders make when trading."

The trading history is here:

http://www.tradewin.co.uk/tradehistory.html

- which shows how they've turned £2k into £124k since the start of 2002 with a mixture of long & short positions via spreadbets.

The tradewin system uses programmed software to spreadbet daily movements in individual stocks from the DOW and FTSE and the whole system is based on mathematical probability.

The strategy behind the tradewin system seems to be driven by the day trading or early scalping for a profit with little or no research into the individual stocks and as such will require constant monitoring of your positions especially if you are using leverage of your investment which can produce high percentage losses as well as high percentage gains.

I have had a quick look at the information and trading records shown on their website...and this is what I have to say:

The returns do look impressive, but it's mainly as a result of using pretty high gearing with the obvious risks that are involved.

There seems to be little in the way of risk or money management to control (reduce) the amount of potential drawdown. Looking through the figures there were draw downs of 45%, 36% & 40% in the space of a few weeks, I wonder how many people could really cope with that psychologically?

I would imagine that this system would stand a very real chance of a complete wipe out especially in the early stages when gearing levels were very high. The level of gearing does seem to have dropped somewhat, but of course so have returns.

                              


As you would reasonably expect, it doesn't tell you too much about the specifics of the strategy other than to state:

"Initially designed on behalf of a full time trader, who has made trading his business for the past 15 years. The TradeWin System is his personal trading tool, the exact same strategy that he employs to make his living.

Although to be fair they do invite you for a demonstration (free of charge) at their offices...

They also state:

"Analysing literally thousands of characteristics from equities within the FTSE and Dow. TradeWin automatically highlights critical trading opportunities that have generated incredible returns for us and our members over the years using financial spread betting."

I say "reasonably" because I guess that is what you're paying for - and the lifetime fee is £4k upfront and £10 a week thereafter.

They state:

"In a market where the amount of participants has no bearing on the success of the strategy, there is absolutely no reason not to get others involved! It allows us to develop and invest in future enhancements of the strategy.

Except that isn't true is it? If everybody followed their strategy the only winners would be the market makers and bookmakers. I will accept that a small subscriber base will have no impact on the wider market - but that is not what they say. I do not like those who are economical with the truth to suit their own agenda.

And

Making this system available to others does not preclude us from making money ...If it did, then it wouldn't be available!"

So they don't take a position before telling their subscribers then? Bet they don't. And if ANY of their tips are small caps where a relatively small number of purchase/sales will move the price then I hope you can see just how making their system available to others will both make them money AND allow them to show stunning returns on their tips for future subscribers.

They are at least willing to show their losers as well as winners which is a plus point, assuming that a few small losers weren't put in to give the data false credibility.

To sum up there are hundreds of these systems being peddled and a lot of them have more going for them than this one in terms of promotional transparency. Some of them make money some of the time, some of them don't have a hope of generating cash for anyone other than the vendors and brokers.

A typical TradeWin Advert

Some obvious problems with the TradeWin system:

1. There is no mention of slippage or commission. Even when using limit orders, commission costs will drastically affect the returns you'd get from a system which trades so often, as this one does.

2. Medium cap companies are most certainly would be affected by a system that was able to trade them successfully. Most of these trading systems operate in the futures markets where they can have an effect in much larger markets than this one uses.

3. You need to spend a hell of a lot of time on a system like this in order to make sure you get your orders in as they meant to be placed.

Lastly their recommended way of trading is spread betting and CFDs, which is not a method for everyone, would you be happy with that?

If you traded the shares rather than used spread betting then the costs would reduce the profit enormously, they show approx 450 trades, dealing on this would cost several thousand pounds as would stamp duty on purchases.

If you have spent 4k on TradeWin - we would like to hear your views on the system. How is it performing? Is it what they say it is? Have you made money or lost? Please write to us below so that other traders are better informed -:

Comments Date
    By Mark2008-06-27 09:00:04

I don't know how Graham lost his £4k bank over Northern Rock. TradeWin didn't have any alerts in Northern Rock. My bank didn't budge either way when that happened, although I did ignore a couple of trades around that time. But with stop limits there's no way he could have lost his bank.

    By Vlad2008-06-09 09:08:44

Graham (or anyone else using Concept FX). How have you found the system over the last few weeks? Seems the system was quite profitable the last two weeks. Do your trades and results tally with those posted on the website?

Any feedback greatly appreciated.

    By Graham2008-05-21 06:24:14

Hi..not being a trader at all i looked at a couple of sytems and thought id take a chance with tradewin in october 2007..had 3 wins out of 5 and the bank was up then the fallout from Norther rock hit and i wiped out my 4k bank...But i am not bitter, the system does work and i will still use it when the market settles down but i have now bought the concept fx...a fool and his money i hear you say..wel to be honest if you cant afford to loose 4k you shouldnt be doing it..but again the results do look encouraging and probably more likley to be more profitable as its end of day trading as opposed to be live prices and alerts than can be iether up or down 2 mins after you get your alert...I will be honest with my replies her and have no problems about telling how it is if it is not whats its cracked up to be.

    By Bryan Horner2008-04-09 09:28:19

Does anyone have experience of their other system - conceptFX - for forex trading?

    By steve2008-01-19 08:42:20

Hasn't worked the past year, taken to shorting their buy signals with more success. Says it all. Don't waste your money.

    By jeff2008-01-06 14:55:04

I have tried many systems some make a little money some made none, i was sick off paying money hand over fist to Companies claiming Big Proffits! I now am a full time trader, in UK and USA markets. Once you understand how it all works you do not need systems you can do it with your eyes shut! If i can get enough people together i thinking of holding a day course to show what i have learned and how it all works. If you know of anyone that would be interested in finding out how to pick there own winners then email me. JeffATcroctrader.co.uk

    By Paul2007-09-23 14:22:47

This system works but one has to be patient, you want become rich overnight. If you did they would not be selling it. For those who are contemplating buying it but finding it expensive i am selling mine if anyone is interested. All date input paid for till jan. 08 offers invite. paulm1986ATyahoo.co.uk

    By Dan O'Reilly2007-06-13 06:11:08

Can anyone who previously posted please give an update as to how the TradeWin system is working for them now that a few months have passed? Thank you in advance.

    By kevin scott2007-05-13 03:37:21

I have had a mostly good experiance with Tradewin. I started with £30,000 last september and am about 18% up. I dont use the same risk level as they do (5%) i use only 3% ie £900 risk per trade. During my period with them I have missed some trades which means I have lost out by about another 5% profit. I dont like cmc and use capital spreads. When i get a sms text I just ring them without thinking too much about what I am trading. I trade on my own and do a bit better than Tradewin but I am spending time doing this.In my opinion if you follow Tradewin over a year you will make a good return and will be able to spend more time in the pub! Kevin Scott

    By Michael Harding2007-05-01 15:46:42

If they have anything like the 350 clients that I was told - what a real pity that there isn't more response to help others decide if it is worth the £4K. If you use the system, please let's have your comments.

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