Tradewin.co.uk - Scam or Real?

I have been taking a look at a trading strategy for FTSE100 & S&P 500 stocks after receiving an email promoting:

www.tradewin.co.uk

who promise:

"A clear & concise trading strategy, with specific signals that generate profit, removing the most common mistakes traders make when trading."

The trading history is here:

http://www.tradewin.co.uk/tradehistory.html

- which shows how they've turned £2k into £124k since the start of 2002 with a mixture of long & short positions via spreadbets.

The tradewin system uses programmed software to spreadbet daily movements in individual stocks from the DOW and FTSE and the whole system is based on mathematical probability.

The strategy behind the tradewin system seems to be driven by the day trading or early scalping for a profit with little or no research into the individual stocks and as such will require constant monitoring of your positions especially if you are using leverage of your investment which can produce high percentage losses as well as high percentage gains.

I have had a quick look at the information and trading records shown on their website...and this is what I have to say:

The returns do look impressive, but it's mainly as a result of using pretty high gearing with the obvious risks that are involved.

There seems to be little in the way of risk or money management to control (reduce) the amount of potential drawdown. Looking through the figures there were draw downs of 45%, 36% & 40% in the space of a few weeks, I wonder how many people could really cope with that psychologically?

I would imagine that this system would stand a very real chance of a complete wipe out especially in the early stages when gearing levels were very high. The level of gearing does seem to have dropped somewhat, but of course so have returns.

                              

As you would reasonably expect, it doesn't tell you too much about the specifics of the strategy other than to state:

"Initially designed on behalf of a full time trader, who has made trading his business for the past 15 years. The TradeWin System is his personal trading tool, the exact same strategy that he employs to make his living.

Although to be fair they do invite you for a demonstration (free of charge) at their offices...

They also state:

"Analysing literally thousands of characteristics from equities within the FTSE and Dow. TradeWin automatically highlights critical trading opportunities that have generated incredible returns for us and our members over the years using financial spread betting."

I say "reasonably" because I guess that is what you're paying for - and the lifetime fee is £4k upfront and £10 a week thereafter.

They state:

"In a market where the amount of participants has no bearing on the success of the strategy, there is absolutely no reason not to get others involved! It allows us to develop and invest in future enhancements of the strategy.

Except that isn't true is it? If everybody followed their strategy the only winners would be the market makers and bookmakers. I will accept that a small subscriber base will have no impact on the wider market - but that is not what they say. I do not like those who are economical with the truth to suit their own agenda.

And

Making this system available to others does not preclude us from making money ...If it did, then it wouldn't be available!"

So they don't take a position before telling their subscribers then? Bet they don't. And if ANY of their tips are small caps where a relatively small number of purchase/sales will move the price then I hope you can see just how making their system available to others will both make them money AND allow them to show stunning returns on their tips for future subscribers.

They are at least willing to show their losers as well as winners which is a plus point, assuming that a few small losers weren't put in to give the data false credibility.

To sum up there are hundreds of these systems being peddled and a lot of them have more going for them than this one in terms of promotional transparency. Some of them make money some of the time, some of them don't have a hope of generating cash for anyone other than the vendors and brokers.

A typical TradeWin Advert

Some obvious problems with the TradeWin system:

1. There is no mention of slippage or commission. Even when using limit orders, commission costs will drastically affect the returns you'd get from a system which trades so often, as this one does.

2. Medium cap companies are most certainly would be affected by a system that was able to trade them successfully. Most of these trading systems operate in the futures markets where they can have an effect in much larger markets than this one uses.

3. You need to spend a hell of a lot of time on a system like this in order to make sure you get your orders in as they meant to be placed.

Lastly their recommended way of trading is spread betting and CFDs, which is not a method for everyone, would you be happy with that?

If you traded the shares rather than used spread betting then the costs would reduce the profit enormously, they show approx 450 trades, dealing on this would cost several thousand pounds as would stamp duty on purchases.

If you have spent 4k on TradeWin - we would like to hear your views on the system. How is it performing? Is it what they say it is? Have you made money or lost? Please write to us below so that other traders are better informed -:

Page is: 15
Comments Date
    By Paul Rosser2009-07-10 12:45:03

I am also a victim of this scam. It looks like Tradewin as closed shop. Does anyone have further info? I think we should all get together and look at the idea of taking legal action as a Group. Please contact me at paulrosser666@msn.com
    By Tim Cochrane2009-06-24 17:23:45

does anyone know what is going on? I am the first to admit that i was stupid! and now the domain is down and none of the websites etc work? Anyone got any info on these guys? Thanks in advance
    By Mark2009-06-18 11:50:01

Their domain is down. Someone call the cops. Seriously, they've no excuse for this behaviour.
    By Jon Constantine2009-04-26 12:38:47

I bought the system but only used it for a short time. I note most of their tips are BUYS and as soon as the credit crunch started, the system started losing money. I note that no results have been posted since early 2008 and none at all for 2009. I think that tells us all we need to know?
    By hezron peters2008-12-21 11:38:15

tradewin does not work.they show impressive figures,but when examined closely you/ll find that it hasn't made any profits for the subcribers since august 2007.Infact it's run at a substantial losses since then. I haven't had a trading position from tradewin since about feb 2008.They sold me a white elephaant. anyone selling their system is doing so because they have a dodo on their hands. Do not invest in a dodo.

    By Mark2008-06-27 09:00:04

I don't know how Graham lost his £4k bank over Northern Rock. TradeWin didn't have any alerts in Northern Rock. My bank didn't budge either way when that happened, although I did ignore a couple of trades around that time. But with stop limits there's no way he could have lost his bank.
    By Vlad2008-06-09 09:08:44

Graham (or anyone else using Concept FX). How have you found the system over the last few weeks? Seems the system was quite profitable the last two weeks. Do your trades and results tally with those posted on the website?

Any feedback greatly appreciated.
    By Graham2008-05-21 06:24:14

Hi..not being a trader at all i looked at a couple of sytems and thought id take a chance with tradewin in october 2007..had 3 wins out of 5 and the bank was up then the fallout from Norther rock hit and i wiped out my 4k bank...But i am not bitter, the system does work and i will still use it when the market settles down but i have now bought the concept fx...a fool and his money i hear you say..wel to be honest if you cant afford to loose 4k you shouldnt be doing it..but again the results do look encouraging and probably more likley to be more profitable as its end of day trading as opposed to be live prices and alerts than can be iether up or down 2 mins after you get your alert...I will be honest with my replies her and have no problems about telling how it is if it is not whats its cracked up to be.
    By Bryan Horner2008-04-09 09:28:19

Does anyone have experience of their other system - conceptFX - for forex trading?
    By steve2008-01-19 08:42:20

Hasn't worked the past year, taken to shorting their buy signals with more success. Says it all. Don't waste your money.
    By jeff2008-01-06 14:55:04

I have tried many systems some make a little money some made none, i was sick off paying money hand over fist to Companies claiming Big Proffits! I now am a full time trader, in UK and USA markets. Once you understand how it all works you do not need systems you can do it with your eyes shut! If i can get enough people together i thinking of holding a day course to show what i have learned and how it all works. If you know of anyone that would be interested in finding out how to pick there own winners then email me. JeffATcroctrader.co.uk
    By Paul2007-09-23 14:22:47

This system works but one has to be patient, you want become rich overnight. If you did they would not be selling it. For those who are contemplating buying it but finding it expensive i am selling mine if anyone is interested. All date input paid for till jan. 08 offers invite. paulm1986ATyahoo.co.uk
    By Dan O'Reilly2007-06-13 06:11:08

Can anyone who previously posted please give an update as to how the TradeWin system is working for them now that a few months have passed? Thank you in advance.
    By kevin scott2007-05-13 03:37:21

I have had a mostly good experiance with Tradewin. I started with £30,000 last september and am about 18% up. I dont use the same risk level as they do (5%) i use only 3% ie £900 risk per trade. During my period with them I have missed some trades which means I have lost out by about another 5% profit. I dont like cmc and use capital spreads. When i get a sms text I just ring them without thinking too much about what I am trading. I trade on my own and do a bit better than Tradewin but I am spending time doing this.In my opinion if you follow Tradewin over a year you will make a good return and will be able to spend more time in the pub! Kevin Scott

    By Michael Harding2007-05-01 15:46:42

If they have anything like the 350 clients that I was told - what a real pity that there isn't more response to help others decide if it is worth the £4K. If you use the system, please let's have your comments.
    By Ron2007-04-04 20:44:57

What do they show you in the free demonstration they run?
    By Mark2007-03-21 20:47:37

I am in my house all day long and most nights too. I would have the time to trade as and when an SMS would come in, at any time of the day. So if that is the most profitable way to do it, I would have no problem there. But I fear that with such a huge outlay for membership, 4k, it would take a similarly large opening sum, an additional 4k, to make ends meet. For anyone who has been using it for a while I would like to know if it would be worth it for me to take this on. I could get the money to join, but I was hoping this would make a nice income for me. Anybody making serious money from it?
    By Steve Faulkner2007-03-01 04:12:55

Thanks Ian, this is what I feared. The reason I want to use this is because I don't have the time to analyse and trade the markets myself. Supposedly these guys should take the legwork out of the process but it seems you still have to be pretty much in he hunt to keep on top of it. Which I unfortunately don't have time for.
    By Ian Jones2007-02-26 06:06:57

I have been using the tradwin alerts and software since August 07. I started with a bank of 2k and still have 2k in my account, but I have missed some big winners and backed some big losers, however if I had not missed the big gains I would today be in profit on my bank, but would not have paid back the initial fee. This system works if you do the following: dont use IG use CMC as you get a better spread: Are able to enter when alerts are generated, ie you are a full time trader. If you miss one winning trade it can seriously dent your profit. I like the system and support but so I believe it to be overpriced for part time traders like myself!
    By Spencer2007-02-20 10:43:57

I've been using Tradewin for a year, until they offered alerts by sms I struggled to enter trades at their quotes, with SMS I enter trades very close to the alerts if not at the same price. The team are also quick to respond to emails, although the offer of training never evolved. I've made my £4000 back and am in profit. There are hard to take downs to take along with the ups.
    By Michael Mc Menamin2007-02-20 07:02:02

I was also thinking of purchasing this program. How long would an average person take to get back the £4,000 initial investment? In appreciation of your time, thanks
    By Steve Faulkner2007-02-19 08:23:08

Was going for a demo tomorrow in 2 minds now. Concerned about alert-trade latency and trading costs. P Beaven, how long did it take you to cover the 4K initial outlay and how much longer did it take to make the next 4k? if you don't mind me asking.
    By Dave Regan2006-12-13 04:06:18

Had an email on this subject and was very thankful for your review, keep me informed on your progress please. Dave
    By Philip Beaven2006-12-01 07:16:29

I have been using the Tradewin system for the last 8 months. It is generally not possible to get into the market at the alert price, and they don't take account of trading costs on their results pages. Nevertheless I am in profit! But you have to be prepared for it to go up and down! I would recommend it, at the moment!
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